Wednesday, 7 September 2011

Emptiness Is, There is no You, as in Zero.

Hi Garsius Tyla.

Elena asked me to carry on with you. I read your conversation and I see that you are right there. Now it's just a matter of seeing the obvious.

How are things looking today?

Garsius Tyla        

Today is a lazy day. I'm doing nothing and there is many ideas around - I should do this, do that, just not to be still, just not to be... Most of those ideas are seen and witnessed. Some missed. Anyway this day is beautiful.
As I see now, there is a shift, where I from "doer" became a "doer and witness of doing". That shift happens very often, sometimes few times per minute. There is a big need to dig more into spiritual things like to read Elena blog, or watch one of  Cesar satsangs. Holding of myself from this as Elena suggested.
Anyway, as I'm writing those "I", "me" etc. there is understanding that here is no "I", just thoughts arising. Problem is - that understanding is intellectual, - like one more additional thought about "no me".

I see. Ok, if you get it intellectually, great. Let's get you to really seeing this. 
Where do thoughts come from?

 From empty area in the middle of my chest.
Can you control them?


Do you know what the next thought is gonna be?

Sometimes. There is some kind of knowing, what thought will come soon in those circumstances around. Hard to describe. No sense in that.

What influences thoughts?

Thought come, when there is time and place for it to come. It's like when same things happen, same suitable thought arise. And if not to be conscious of that, it may happen again and again.

Can a thought be stopped in the middle?
Yes, seems so. If to become conscious of that thought, it stops in the middle. But anyway I know what that second part would be.

Have a look at thought itself and write what you see.
Thought arise from empty space, generate one, or another feeling in the body and disappear. Sometimes I can be so still to watch and fully realise that. Thought is not me. Seems like "I" should be that one, who watch thought.
Ok, let's look closer. Notice that thoughts are just labels and mind is a labelling machine. Sensation arise- thought follows, sound is heard, label follows, look around the room, notice things and how mind labels them automatically. 
Yes. That can be seen easy. Not for all objects that happens, but for many. For example i look at picture with sunflower on it: thought arises: "sunflower". Actually it is a picture not a flower, isn't it?
Next look at labels themselves.
Some words point to real things.
Some point to symbols and imaginary stuff. 
Yes. And that cannot be controlled - happens automatically. If trying to force looking without labelling - even then its replacing label thought with one dead empty thought, or something like that.
Look at word table and see the table in front, you can touch it, it's real.

Take word university. Is there a university in reality? There are buildings, people, desks, computers, books, but no such thing as university. So it's a label that we use so we can communicate about it but there is no such thing.
Examine the label I. What does it point to? Anything real?

 It points to complex of a body, though and feeling. Is it real. I struggle here.

How about Santa? 

There is no Santa, only idea about him.
How about self?
Nope there is no self. Only idea that this body and thought complex is me.

Cool, let's look at that thought I together.
I points to thoughts about 'me' but there is no me in there check it- is there a 'me' in the body, thoughts and feelings other that thought about 'me'?
there is no "me" inside except that thought about "me". Then "me" wants to hang on that observer, who observes that "I" thought and all other stuff inside and outside.
Word body points to body,
Thought points to thought,
Feeling- to feeling. Real stuff.

I points to thoughts about 'me' but there is no me in there check it- is there a 'me' in the body, thoughts and feelings other that thought about 'me'?

What breathes? Is it you breathing or body itself?
Is there a breather?
Is there a walker or walking is happening?
Is there a digester? Or digestion is happening?
Is there a feeler?
A thinker?
A witnesser?
A drinker?
An eater?
That happen itself, I just can be, or not to be aware of it. Who is aware then? Yeah, I can see, that awareness happens by itself too ... Who is aware of awareness then?? Damn, that is a confuse...

See where I'm going? 
I is just a label that is used for communication so we can understand language. But I is just a label and not doer.
Awareness just is. Does it need an I to be aware 
No, no need for an "I" to be aware. 
Do you have a pet? Look at animal, see, it is aware of environment. But is there an I that is aware? 

How about a fly? A bird? Is there a manager in there that is aware or awareness is aware of itself by itself?  
Animal eyes are empty. There is no "I".

Observer? There is observing happening, observed, observer and observation being one- process. Is there a separate being that is observing?

Check that.

Look at how everything is happening by itself. Thought comes up, fingers type, words appear on the screen.
Is there an observer outside this action happening?
 What is being noticed? Is there a noticer?
That emptiness is aware of thoughts. Thoughts arises in that emptiness and ends there. That means I'm emptiness?

Seems like that observer, that awareness is localised in the body somehow. All is observed from the body point.

What is being noticed? Is there a noticer?

emptiness is a noticer
 <<That emptiness is aware of thoughts. Thoughts arises in that emptiness and ends there. That means I'm emptiness?>>>
No that does not mean that you are emptiness.
It means that emptiness is, but there is no you at all. As in zero.

Is this true?

I don't know.
No. Honestly i know: there is no me.
Still this feeling of "I" is here. Yes, huge label of "me".
Ghrrr, I want to get rid of that labeling...
Labelling is happening and there is no one here to get rid of it. It's happening and it will be as it always was.
It's not the labelling that drops and not the feeling of beingness, but belief that there is a you to which all this is happening. 
Life is.
You isn't.

Do the maths.

There is a feeling of apathy here. It's like "yeah, yeah, that is true, but - whatever". Sometime moments of strange happiness come, then again the same.
Good good, it's all happening. There is no you to see but seeing is happening.  Is it true?
Yes, it's true - there is no me seeing, just a feeling that it is "I" who sees, seeing happening itself and object.
Feeling that it I that sees- look there.
There is feeling of seeing + labelling. =  I see.
Look at that feeling again.

Seeing is happening....
How is everything looking today?
Peaceful, quiet and no one care even about those nice things. Today there is no apathy. Today is ... nothing.

How does it feel to be liberated?

:) Like a beginning, or something like that. There is a strong need to show that to others also. There is silent gratitude with no target for it. And mind comes like that: "oh I should be very happy" and disappears. And there is love - silent warmth to all: you, Elena, table, rain ...
Thank you.  Much appreciation here.
There are some questions left that we need to go through just to clarify, but I see you you made it :))

Answer when ready

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Nope, there is no me at all.
2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.
  I don't know how it works. Somehow "I" is connected to every thought that come. That is how "I am that, I am this, I feel this, I don't feel that" is here. Somehow there is a believe about that - that you are this every statement "I am...". Like you are inside thought. You are content of that thought and acting with no questioning. If question arises, it became an "I" immediately. So that nonsense of self goes on forever.
3) How does it feel to be liberated?
  It's just to perceive all happening, to look at "I" thought not being touched by it. Actually you are not touched by anything. There is no you. Nothing. Everything. But not "I". Even "I" is in that everything.
4) how would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no you?

There is no you. Look and see, that there is body, thoughts, feelings etc. same as other things around in the world. Perceiving of those things happens, but there is no perceiver. "I" thought is everywhere, but it is not you. Try and find that out yourself. Anything you can identify yourself with while trying, will be false. You can't be that thing you looking at. Look and take of yourself layer after layer of that false "I". Till nothing of "you" left. 


Last bit:

1. Is there any doubt at all?
Nope there is no doubt. "I" can return, but there is always clear it is not me. 

2. Can you tell what pushed you over? What was most instrumental, what made you actually look. Can you look back and see if you can pinpoint that shift?
Can not say. Maybe that will come later. Elena and You just chopped, chopped and chopped. And somehow, at some point some resistance fall apart and nothing left... Hah, now tears come. Much Love here.

After this post of Elena
"You just keep talking. Stop and look. Write only when you have something worth to say."

Next morning I wrote to her
"What a joyful day :) Last summer day, peace within. Thoughts just apper and go, people around comes and goes, everything comes and goes. Even looking "inside" just comes and goes :) Where is my "I"? Today Im looking to the eyes of other people and dont feel that separatness was before: "I" thought comes, "I" go, same as all other around."

That morning when I opened my eyes there was full clarity. Later I sliped and again did not understand what and how. (there was understanding but also a thought that I don’t understand anything. ) Later Elena was still working with me and then you took over, helped to stabilise it all. 

After this post :

"No that does not mean that you are emptiness. 
It means that emptiness is, but there is no you at all. As in zero. 

Is this true? "

There was nothing left to identify with, not even with emptiness. After this apathy started, like “ oh well, it does not matter” and later something gave up.
I don’t know to whom to give my scalp, to the first one or to the last. Perhaps to you, as fter last cited post there was nowhere to retreat :) seeing and admitting happened. 

   3.Is it ok to put our conversation in my blog as it may help others and what name could I use? 
Of course. if that will be helpfull for others to get off that nonsense. Name it "Garsius Tyla". With that pseudo Im in FB. 

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