Sunday, 3 July 2011

Who is there to focus?

My friend Chandi.

Hi Ilona, here I am again.

I've been really and honestly considering the possibility that there really is no me. Been trying to look at different angles, seeing when I react to other people, and then try to see WHO is reacting. And basically what comes up is that I really can't find a someone called Chandi, when I have no thoughts, or when I look for the 'solid entity-ness' of Chandi, I can't find it, it is usually a thought which makes whatever emotion or thought 'mine'.
But Ilona, that happens after the fact. Like I react at the time, being caught up in the illusion of me and my emotions, so to speak, and then afterwards realize that the 'me' was actually not really there, it is yet another thought saying so.
I'm now looking into responsibilities, and their ownership. That which makes me panicky. What do I do now? All the million stuff which needs doing, presumably by me, for my kids, father, work, etc, etc. If 'I'm' not in control, then what? Who is going to do it all? I can't let go!

All good Chandi, the process has started.
Life is happening by itself, there is no separate doer, there is no separate person that takes care of things. It's life itself. So don't worry, once you really see that self is not real, then nothing will change, your kids, father, all are gonna be taken care if. They already are, only a thought in a head makes it appear that it's you doing all these things.

Truly, it's just another fear.
Look behind that.

There is no control over what is happening as it is just happening, all by itself. There is no you to influence life, it has no need for a manager.

Reactions happen same way as the scratch follows the itch. Notice that. There is a story playing itself out, here is the character Chandi, that reacts in particular way to particular stimulus. Let's not get involved in the story now, just look deeper:

There really is no self at all in reality.

Notice, everything is already happening by itself. Notice, that you are seeing it ALREADY, only thoughts arise and go away that say opposite. Do not believe the thoughts.

Notice what is happening around, the totality.
Write down what you see.

Yes yes I see that, I see the mind/thoughts follow a pattern with the reactions. The same things will trigger the same reaction, maybe it's a conditioning over the years, but as you say, I'm not getting involved in the stories. It's a question of not believing the thoughts. But it's a powerful thought. OK.
It's hard to believe that things will happen without 'me'. Even though it is known, but the fear continues. Trying to look deeper. Really, at the moment can't go beyond that. Focusing. Ok If I am not the one, say, loving my kids, if there is no me, then where is the loving happening? Why does the love and responsibility feel so personal? Will it still be felt?
Am I talking nonsense?

Love is real. It is happening. But it's not happening to "you".
< it is hard to believe that things will be happening without you. - this is conditioning, unquestioned assumption. Everything is is already happening without you managing, doing anything.

There is no doer at all.
There is no thinker at all.

Notice now- thought appears, fingers start typing, all this is happening by itself.

Look at the fear itself. What is it protecting? Bring it closer- don't worry, it's just fear. Look at it with respect- it's doing it's job perfectly. Can you see?

the fear is making me feel a little sick! And yes, it's doing it's job well. It's protecting the illusionary Chandi from being seen through, the Chandi which is in turn supposedly protecting the people who she loves and cares for. It's actually quite funny, but so hard to let go of.
Help, Ilona. Where do I go from here.....
So fear is there to protect he illusion of separate self that runs Chandi. Look at it without trying to change the fear. Bow to it in honour how well it does it's job. See what happens now.
Can you let the fear just be there?
Ilona, I think I have to sit with this one for a while. Is it ok if I write again later to you?
It's great you're taking the time/effort to do this. ♥

Cant thank you enough

Also, want to tell you feeling super sensitive right now... noises and emotions and everything...


I love helping people to see this simple thing. :)
Write to me when it feels right, I'll keep guiding you until it's over.
Once you make peace with fear, let me know.

Chandi, how is it going. Write!

Dear Ilona. I lost my focus. Had an extremely stressful day, and just couldn't focus internally. But I'm not giving up. I'll see it through, just need more time.

Is that ok? Again, I'm not going to give up. I'm planning a short trip to the mountains tomorrow. Hopefully will be calmer there. I know it's all life, but sometimes one needs a little outward calm to be able to look inwards, no?

I'll keep writing you. :)thanks.
Ilona, there's always so much going on in my life, it's hard to be able to sit and focus and write. I guess it's the same story with everyone actually.. But trying, and the desire for truth burns as much as ever.

Plus, I'm running from the No Holds barred group. It's too much! In many ways! :DI wont leave the group yet, but I think I'll just check in on the other quieter one...

keep looking! what does the word I refer to? is there anything in real life that you can find?

I can't when I think about it. But why do I still get emotionally involved in the I, the thoughts, the emotions? How can one understand on one level, and not practically?

emotions just happen. feeling arise as reaction to situations, but who is feeling? feelings are, come and go, thoughts too, come and go, it's just minds function to label experience. by itself.

So what does one do then? Keep not believing the thought which does that?

you use thoughts to work it out.
tell me where do thought come from?
can you control them?

Nope, can't control them, they appear whether one wants them to or not.

what is a thought "I"? what does it refer to?
so the thought" I am thinking" is only just a though, like " I am not thinking"

Hmmm. yes.

see? now have a look at this thought :
there is no separate self at all
I am a separate self
does one mean more that another?

OOkkk. I need to chew on that. And then get dinner for kids. Will you be online later?

I’ill be on my iphone :)we can chat later again.

Great. Thanks, Till later then
I seem stuck, Ilona. I don't know if the 'stuckness' is in my head, a thought, or I really don't know where to go from here.

You must be getting tired of me by now 

What happens is that I can't seem to 'maintain' the 'no-I'. Keep getting pulled by life in to being the self. When I am relaxed, I don't find the self. But it's so hard to relax, with kids and other stuff going on. Do you have children?

I'm jealous! How was the other guy liberated? What did he do, or how did he maintain the focus to break through.

The guy did it in a couple of days and focused really well. But it does not matter, everyone is different.

Of course you can't maintain no I. It's not a training exercise where you learn to be happy. It's clear seeing that dissolves the illusion and then there is nothing left to maintain. Once it's seen through, relaxation comes naturally, takes time to adjust, but life gets less and less stressful until nothing touches the nerves anymore.

But all this is irrelevant at the moment, you will see it for yourself.

For now just answer me this:
Where do the thoughts come from? What drives the body? Does it need a manager?

I have no kids, only a cat :)
Ok, when you look at a baby, can you see self in there?

Simply answer these questions with whole honesty.

Looking forward to hear from you.
What to do, the conditioning goes so deep... It seems 'wrong' to believe that there can be no soul driving the body-mind. It's so big in Islam, the idea of a separate soul.

And yes, When I try to trace thoughts, it seems they just come up, without a me controlling them. But that's when I'm actively focusing on it. My body.. Back and forth.

But thanks to what you told me the last time, I can see how reactions and responses just arise, without a personal self controlling them. It's like a program on a computer!

Chandi, we are not looking here for new belief, we want to get over belief and see it for what it is. No there is no individual soul driving body. this is just a unexamined belief. Which is nothing else as a program in the thoughts. As you see thoughts rise up by themselves. Including a thought that there is a soul.

Now look who/ what is focusing? Is there something that makes it happen or does it happen effortlessly by itself?

Is there anyone directing focusing?

Is there focusing just happening?

Is it kind of like how our body processes are just happening (without us being the manager): cells renewing, food digesting, (ha ha and some of the other functions so graphically described in the group), breathing... And also just happening is seeing, thinking, doing, also without a manager? Your bit about focusing just happening made me realize that yes, it IS just happening effortlessly. I'm just so used to claiming ownership of it that it happens so quickly. But yes, no director really.

Yes! You are looking at it. Now see if you can go deeper. What is the "I"?

Yes Ilona! I see that!

Sorry I must have been asleep when you wrote, as I'm in Pakistan. Not sure where u are. It's sunday afternoon now here..

Its great. What I see of the I is that it's like an operating system on a computer (our 'windows' kinda) and since it's encountered everywhere, it's believed to be our identity. Just a collection of thoughts, emotions, etc everywhere,, but we don't have to believe that they are who we are. It's there to keep the character going, but when it's seen for what it is, well, we can still use it but don't have to be identified with it.

I'm excited I can see that, and I hope I'm seeing right, and not 'convincing my mind' of what I've heard or read. But YAY who is there to do the convincing and be convinced. There really isn't anyone, is there? Wow! the world feels just a tiny bit different. But Ilona, what about the huge 'shifts in consciousness' things that people talk about? It's not like that. I don't feel so different, but I do in a way. I'm seeing that everything, including me, is flowing with and as life. Every sound, every sight, everything is sacred. How do we get so wrapped in our identities to not see that???

Awesome Chandi ! Yes you are seeing it. Can you write what happened? What exactly made you see it? How you came to this ?

Hmm it's like I knew it, but I thought I didn't. Almost like that. A few things you said made me realize it. Like I used to get stuck on my feelings and reactions. Like if there's no me, then how come I reacted like that etc. But when you said, then I realized it really is like a computer program in a way. It's just happening. Doesn't mean there has to be a self to control, to feel, etc.

Also the point when you asked, who is the one who is focusing or something. And I was thinking 'I have to focus to know there is no 'I'. It's like this self perpetuating loop, which got interrupted then. Who is focusing?

Shouldn't there be bells ringing or something huge?
:)ha ha on the other hand, it's all like that somewhat. Thanks ever so much. ♥Ilona. But what about later, if perhaps the identification happens again? What next? Is there a next :) ?

Ohhh , brilliant!

No there are no trumpets and no medal, no angels gonna sing.
This illusion of separation simple drops, and that's it.
Everyone expects something big, but hey, nothing has to happen, it already is. :)

What has been seen, can not be unseen. Ever.

Next is different for everyone, but it's about bits of illusion falling of like dominoes. All that has been stuck, releases, clarity grows, seeing deepens.
For now, just relax, let it sink in.

Writing really helps to look into darker places to cut through illusion, so when you have time, can you write a big piece addressing what is self, what is I, what is real, just whatever flows.

Much love, Chandi, and thank you VERY much for looking. ♥

Oh, can I use this for my blog?

Ok. I will trust. And I thank YOU. Really.

I don’t mind you using that for your blog at all. But perhaps, for my family, etc (the traditions, culture here is v different), could you not use my full name? hee hee, the no-me still has to get used to it, but they'd REALLY not understand. The role still has to be played...

Yes, I will write whenever I can!

Much love and appreciation.

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